From Hand It In to Publish It: Re-Envisioning Our Classrooms

Presenter Will Richardson

Skype notes: 11 people

[7:29:17 AM] Jeff Utecht says: OK can you see this?
[7:29:28 AM] Chris Lehmann says: yep.
[7:29:33 AM] Jeff Utecht added John Pederson to this chat
[7:29:38 AM] Jeff Utecht says: John?
[7:29:46 AM] John Pederson says: here
[7:30:17 AM] Brian Crosby says: OK here I am
[7:31:29 AM] Jeff Utecht added Darren Draper to this chat
[7:31:48 AM] Jeff Utecht says: OK everyone here!
[7:31:51 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Let’s do it
[7:31:56 AM] Darren Draper says: This rocks.
[7:32:13 AM] Jeff Utecht added Dean Shareski, J Stearns to this chat
[7:32:16 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Hi Dean!
[7:32:54 AM] Jeff Utecht says: I’ve added Dean Shareski: you can opt out Dean we are live Skype Noting Will’s spotlight session
[7:32:59 AM] Darren Draper says: Kevin Honeycutt said that this is the first conference he’s been to (myself included) where he met a lot of people “who’s brains he had known” before he knew their faces.
[7:33:47 AM] Chris Lehmann says: I was involved in an old usenet group that used to get together a few times a year… and it really infused our online conversations with something more powerful. This feels like that.
[7:35:02 AM] Jeff Utecht added Clarence Fisher to this chat
[7:35:18 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Lot’s of question that I’m not sure there are answers too yet
[7:35:21 AM] Chris Lehmann says: I really, really like that Will’s conversation is now really looking at the larger issue and change and framing this.
[7:35:29 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Welcome Clarence Fisher from Canada
[7:35:35 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Hi Clarence!
[7:35:38 AM] John Pederson says:
[7:35:39 AM] Clarence Fisher says: Good morning all
[7:35:42 AM] John Pederson says: will’s “slides”
[7:35:48 AM] John Pederson says: mornign clarence
[7:35:49 AM] Clarence Fisher says: sitting supervising a science exam right now
[7:35:51 AM] Brian Crosby says:
[7:36:04 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Will’s Title: Hand it in to Publish it: Re-envisioning our Classrooms
[7:36:51 AM] Darren Draper says: Will’s got a lot of questions.  Don’t we all?
[7:37:15 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Jeff and Dan — do you think we’re Answers with a capital “A” or small “a” answers that work for our own schools?
[7:37:21 AM] John Pederson says: talking about Wikinomics by Don Tapscott
[7:37:27 AM] Clarence Fisher says: I have to tell all of you how amazing it has been following all of you this week
[7:37:29 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Make sure you mute your sound :)
[7:37:35 AM] John Pederson says: referencing Taking IT Global
[7:37:37 AM] Clarence Fisher says: I’ve been very jealous
[7:37:46 AM] Darren Draper says: Alan Kay: “The best way to predict the future is to invent it.”  I just wish it were easier to invent, to get people to buy in.
[7:38:01 AM] Darren Draper says: Jeff – did you get Bretag’s Twitter?
[7:38:17 AM] Darren Draper says: ryanbretag is his Skype.
[7:38:19 AM] J Stearns says: Making a difference by connecting around your passions. That’s the essence of all of this.
[7:38:38 AM] Brian Crosby says: Will we ever answer the question or just be happy getting pieces of it?
[7:38:58 AM] Chris Lehmann says: J — yes, but that’s old pedagogy, fortunately. I can get my head around that. :)
[7:39:42 AM] Clarence Fisher says: sorry chrisw, wrong button
[7:39:44 AM] Jeff Utecht added ryanbretag to this chat
[7:39:45 AM] ryanbretag can’t be added to this chat due to his/her privacy settings
[7:39:49 AM] Chris Lehmann says: no worries. :)
[7:40:08 AM] Clarence Fisher says: I was looking for your skype to add you actually, you’re not on my list!
[7:40:14 AM] Chris Lehmann says: yeah… I just added you. :)
[7:40:19 AM] Clarence Fisher says: thanks
[7:40:20 AM] Darren Draper says: Kids don’t see privacy the same way that we do.
[7:40:28 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Yee gods. My skype list is growing astronomically.
[7:40:31 AM] Darren Draper says: That’s a powerfully true statement.
[7:40:48 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Here’s where you can see Will’s passion for Larry Lessig’s ideas.
[7:40:50 AM] Brian Crosby says: My class blog uses student first names – and their names pop up in video and wiki stuff – hasn’t been an issue, but always a concern
[7:41:15 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Brian — we use first and last, but we figure it’s their academic presence online.
[7:41:48 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Aha! We let kids use iChat as a collaborative document.
[7:41:47 AM] Clarence Fisher says: mine too Brian. Pics are ok for us as well.
[7:42:09 AM] Brian Crosby says: Yes – and Blogmeister is student friendly that way
[7:42:11 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Has anyone played w/ google docs w/ kids and projects?
[7:42:14 AM] Clarence Fisher says: my problem has been with kids giving links ot personal websites that have way too much info on them
[7:42:21 AM] Clarence Fisher says: yes chris we have
[7:42:29 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Clarence — agreed. I can’t seem to stop them from doing that.
[7:42:34 AM] Chris Lehmann says: How did it go, Clarence?
[7:42:57 AM] Clarence Fisher says: scripts for videos between kids in Colombia, Kuala Lumpur and us here, worked beautifully
[7:43:21 AM] Darren Draper says: We use Google Docs with our teachers for PD – we also use it to share docs among our team members.
[7:43:36 AM] Jeff Utecht says: “We’re still limited by four walls”
[7:43:49 AM] John Pederson says: we are cooperative…very different than collaborative
[7:44:09 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Will is talking about CC and copyright. On some level, I think this is one of the most challenging ideas he’s bringing to the table at NECC.
[7:45:02 AM] Clarence Fisher says: what is Will’s session called?
[7:45:10 AM] Jeff Utecht says:
[7:45:15 AM] Chris Lehmann says: o.k. — let’s ask the $1,000,000 question — how do we move more folks to believing in the CC / open courseware model, rather than the “Buy it off the shelf” model that we see on the exhibit floor?
[7:45:19 AM] Darren Draper says: I’m glad Will’s bringing CC into the discussion.  We need to be pushing for it more (especially as bloggers).
[7:45:32 AM] John Pederson says: related to cooperation vs. collaboration:
[7:45:41 AM] Jeff Utecht says: From Hand it in to Publish It: Re-Envisioning our classroom is the title
[7:46:14 AM] Chris Lehmann says: John — amazing frame in that article.
[7:46:15 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Traditional books can not be changed
[7:46:42 AM] Chris Lehmann says: in three minutes — 500 changes on wikipedia. over 250,000 changes a day.
[7:46:43 AM] Jeff Utecht says: 400,000 changes a day to wikipedia
[7:46:45 AM] John Pederson says: showing the last 500 changes of of wikipedia over time…i love doing that in my presentations as well
[7:46:45 AM] Chris Lehmann says: dang.
[7:46:54 AM] Chris Lehmann says: o.k. — we all thought that was cool.
[7:46:54 AM] Clarence Fisher says: Chris: people need to belive they can be creative, that its ok to fail and fall on our faces in a public space, that we dont harm kids by trying new things
[7:47:22 AM] Jeff Utecht added Bill Fitzgerald to this chat
[7:47:42 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Fear of failure holds education back
[7:47:44 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Why?
[7:47:48 AM] Jeff Utecht says: What are we afraid of?
[7:47:53 AM] Chris Lehmann says: losing our jobs.
[7:47:57 AM] Clarence Fisher says: the public?
[7:48:09 AM] Jeff Utecht says: test scores?
[7:48:20 AM] Brian Crosby says: the unknown – many teachers don’t know tech or web 2.0
[7:48:44 AM] Clarence Fisher says: personal data in my classroom shows reading levels, spelling, math levels incr
easing steadily year by year
[7:48:45 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: a combination of the above, plus scrutiny of our work leading to judgements re competence
[7:48:47 AM] Chris Lehmann says: There are a small group of principals in Philly who form my local social network, and one of our axioms is “If we are afraid to lose our jobs, we cannot do our jobs.”
[7:48:48 AM] Brian Crosby says: Many parents either
[7:49:04 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Kids need to be taught how to use technology for their own learning
[7:49:06 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Oh, I *LOVE* what Will is saying now.
[7:50:08 AM] Clarence Fisher says: share please
[7:50:21 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: what clarence said
[7:50:45 AM] Clarence Fisher says: “stuck” in a classroom with 8 kids writing a final science exam
[7:50:45 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Should we still be teaching keyboarding
[7:50:47 AM] John Pederson says: lol, lehman’s phone just went off
[7:50:57 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Sorry… he’s talking about technology speeding up (showing the MIcrosoft Surface) and using it as a frame for how we think about learning and our kids and our society.
[7:51:01 AM] Jeff Utecht says: With things like the Microsoft Surface and things coming out
[7:51:06 AM] J Stearns says: The Microsoft touch screen technology video shows that technology is not slowing down in our world, and that the keyboard and the mouse will probably be gone by the time our students hit the workplace.
[7:51:11 AM] Brian Crosby says: I didn’t know Chris’s face could be that red
[7:51:22 AM] Clarence Fisher says: lol
[7:51:28 AM] Chris Lehmann says: my cell just went off. Oy. I’m REALLY embarrased.
[7:51:33 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Great graph from BusinessWeek
[7:52:06 AM] Chris Lehmann says: he’s talking about how he learns…
[7:52:15 AM] Chris Lehmann says: using the blogs as a learning environment.
[7:52:19 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: re the graph — any date on that?
[7:52:29 AM] Brian Crosby says: That’s OK  Chris- you didn’t have David Warlick sit down next to you and notice that I use Word to write my blog
[7:52:30 AM] Jeff Utecht says: 95% of the learning he does comes from passion
[7:52:34 AM] Clarence Fisher says: Bill I thinks it was just released this week
[7:52:36 AM] Chris Lehmann says: heh
[7:52:41 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: thx
[7:52:48 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Or that Brian doesn’t use an RSS reader :)
[7:52:51 AM] Chris Lehmann says: learning is not limited by four walls.
[7:52:47 AM] Darren Draper says: 95% of the learning that Will does using blogs is because he _wants_ to.
[7:52:57 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: what’s rss ?
[7:52:59 AM] Brian Crosby says: OK oK
[7:52:58 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: :)
[7:53:25 AM] Jeff Utecht says: The Friday Folder Story…a good one
[7:53:34 AM] Chris Lehmann says: I’ve never heard him tell this one.
[7:53:52 AM] Jeff Utecht says: He and his wife keep all the paperwork from their kid’s “Friday Folder”
[7:54:02 AM] J Stearns says: I can’t believe that many teachers still use the “dittos” that bored me as a student
[7:54:10 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Why is the mode of instruction limited by paper? (My answer…) Because districts can’t afford the technology.
[7:54:12 AM] Clarence Fisher says: me too, I’ve got 2 drawers filled with it from this school year alone
[7:54:25 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Great term — “dependent learner.”
[7:54:37 AM] Brian Crosby says: The day I slapped my own face because I realized I could just put the questions I wanted my students to answer on the same wiki instead of giving them a sheet of paper … duh
[7:55:14 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: @Brian — but that’s the thing — you had the realization AND access to the tools to make the realization happen —
[7:55:23 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Learn in the context of what you are passion about…are teachers passionate about teaching?
[7:55:25 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: how many teachers have the first, but not the second?
[7:55:40 AM] Brian Crosby says: Good point!
[7:56:05 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: and when a teacher has an idea about how to do something better/different, how many of them have resources (either personal or technological) to access?
[7:56:26 AM] Dean Shareski says: Brian,  you’re sure taking a beating over your RSS confession (chuckle)
[7:56:46 AM] Chris Lehmann says: he’s talking about assessments now… he just admitted that we cannot show that read-write tools raise test scores… but then challenged — what do the test scores measure.
[7:56:52 AM] Brian Crosby says: Now I’m almost as red as Chris : )
[7:56:56 AM] Chris Lehmann says: :)
[7:57:14 AM] Jeff Utecht says: We learn for ourselves, we learn because we want to, we learn because we’re passionate about our topic
[7:57:15 AM] Chris Lehmann says: O.k. — here’s a challenge to what Will was saying about his son’s passion about baseball cards, etc…
[7:57:32 AM] Clarence Fisher says: no, they don’t rasie test scores. But they add value to education without losing anything that has been traditionally important
[7:58:02 AM] J Stearns says: Cooperative learning lacks passion – great point.
[7:58:13 AM] Chris Lehmann says: I think one of the jobs of school is to introduce students to ideas and concepts that they might not yet know they are passionate about. I think we *have* to address that as one of the limitations of the individualized learning model.
[7:58:36 AM] Jeff Utecht says: IBM has 26,000 bloggers, 20,000 wikis with 100,000 users and 50 islands in Second Life
[7:58:44 AM] John Pederson says: i really like how Will puts things through the lens of his children
[7:58:46 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: re showing read/write tools and test scores — at least 3 levels — causality (very difficult in any context); correlation (still difficult); but the real question is r/w tools embedded in an appropriate academic context — not evaluating tools, but pedagogy
[7:59:01 AM] Jeff Utecht says: He’s mentioned Wikinoics twice now
[7:59:24 AM] John Pederson says: “are we preparing them for their life’s work”
[7:59:25 AM] Clarence Fisher says: harvard school of business has a great podcast interview with the author of wikinomics
[7:59:33 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Bill — great point. And I do think that we at SLA will be able to show a correlation between our pedagogy, the tech and literacy test scores.
[7:59:59 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Now Will is talking about a more complex literacy that is necessary in our schools.
[8:00:19 AM] Chris Lehmann says: US Dept of Labor — by the time our kids are 38 years old, they will have had 10 – 12 jobs.
[8:00:20 AM] Brian Crosby says: Another breakthrough experience for me this year was when I had a half day sub and the students did the entire time by accessing their learn from our class wiki page – when I came back at lunch the sub was just floored by the experience – I’m so jazzed about next year!!!
[8:00:22 AM] Jeff Utecht says: In the future we are all consultants
[8:00:25 AM] John Pederson says: “for their life’s work” is much more effective language than “21st century skills”, “world of work”, etc.
[8:00:29 AM] Jeff Utecht says: That’s the expats in China
[8:00:43 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Brian — that’s awesome.
[8:00:45 AM] Jeff Utecht says: You come in for 2 or 3 year…sometimes 2 months and then change jobs.
[8:00:56 AM] John Pederson says: learn, unlearn, relearn
[8:00:57 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: yeah
[8:01:08 AM] Jeff Utecht says: If an expat stays more than 5 years in China…that’s a LONG time.
[7:57:15 AM] Darren Draper says: Future assessment will be not be external.
[7:58:28 AM] Darren Draper says: IBM:  26,000 internal bloggers.  Why do we blog?  … to get smarter.
[8:01:18 AM] John Pederson says: “my kids can’t wait until they are 40 before they are lifel
ong learners”
[8:01:21 AM] Darren Draper says: “I didnt’ get to be a life long learner until I was 40.
[8:01:25 AM] Chris Lehmann says: I struggle with that. I’m a roots guy. I want to be at SLA for more than five years.
[8:01:25 AM] Clarence Fisher says: Brian I’ve had that smae experience, being out of town speaking somewhere and kids email, post to their blogs, IM, and I can follow it all from wherever I am
[8:01:36 AM] Brian Crosby says: I hope universities are ready for thoughs students …lol
[8:01:44 AM] J Stearns says: Life-long learning needs to be modeled better. Used to much in the educational jargon
[8:01:45 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: @ Brian and Clarence: same here
[8:02:01 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Brian — universities seem to be getting it… they are embracing hybrid learning.
[8:02:08 AM] Brian Crosby says: I love it!
[8:02:32 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: I’ve seen this is well — many writing programs are using blended learning extensively
[8:02:38 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Moment of confession — I never finished “The World Is Flat.”
[8:02:43 AM] Jeff Utecht says: @ J Stearns agree that’s why we need teachers to understand…are teachers really lifelong learners…or do they learn because they “have to”?
[8:03:19 AM] Brian Crosby says: I haven’t started – but almost feel like I’ve read from all the discussion about it
[8:03:22 AM] Clarence Fisher says: I have an interview tonight with Michigan University. They are setting up pd models for teachers on blended learning
[8:03:33 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Clarence — so cool. Are you going to help them set it up?
[8:03:37 AM] J Stearns says: Teachers want to be life long learners, they just need the opportunity and the tools and time.
[8:04:01 AM] Darren Draper says: I *love* the Zion Narrows.  If you’ve never been, you’ve gotta go.
[8:04:07 AM] Chris Lehmann says: — the Sam Jackson College Experience — teaching kids to take initiaive.
[8:04:11 AM] Clarence Fisher says: they are setting it all up. I’m just doing some interviews with them about content and i’m being one of their modules
[8:04:12 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: @ clarence — will the blended learning piece incorporate any action research as pd?
[8:04:19 AM] Dean Shareski says: I left my machine on, drove across down, logged back in to see I’m in the middle of a live chat session at NECC….when will it stop!
[8:04:20 AM] Brian Crosby says: To some degree the tools can help with the time issue
[8:04:30 AM] Jeff Utecht says: My best China story. A guy with a MS degree in Photography works for IBM in Shanghai as a consultant that works with the Computer people in Shanghai and the software people in India to figure out what software should be packaged with what hardware. Why…because he knows how to unlearn and relearn quickly (His words)
[8:04:35 AM] Clarence Fisher says: I dont know what their full model will look like
[8:04:36 AM] Chris Lehmann says: “How do I know who to trust? How do I decide who is an expert in this world?”
[8:04:38 AM] Brian Crosby says: 25 minutes
[8:04:47 AM] Darren Draper says: Sweet story, Jeff.
[8:05:13 AM] John Pederson says: he’s going to show network explorer…i love that
[8:05:14 AM] Darren Draper says: “How do our kids figure out who they can trust?”
[8:05:27 AM] Jeff Utecht added David Jakes to this chat
[8:05:33 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Hey David!
[8:05:49 AM] Clarence Fisher says: teaching kids to evaluate info is a vital part of being literate today. Finding and being the nodes for others
[8:06:13 AM] J Stearns says: Will is showing Delicious Network explorer.I’ve never seen that. Very cool.
[8:06:16 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Showing network explorer
[8:06:36 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: at the risk of simplifiying: trust == critical thinking
[8:06:38 AM] David Jakes says: Hey everybody
[8:06:44 AM] Brian Crosby says: Will has the spinning color wheel
[8:06:53 AM] Brian Crosby says: Hey david
[8:06:54 AM] Darren Draper says: Hey Jakes.  This has been great.
[8:07:06 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Yee gods, Will’s desktop is messy. :)
[8:07:12 AM] David Jakes says: Absolutely, I’m in the blogger cafe following along
[8:07:35 AM] John Pederson says: students need to be self-editors
[8:07:48 AM] Clarence Fisher says: edit after publication – much more common
[8:08:51 AM] Chris Lehmann says: framing trust and knowledge and information and such w/ the site.
[8:08:58 AM] Brian Crosby says: revision, revision, revision
[8:09:18 AM] Dean Shareski says: Stephen Downes argues that blogs aren’t so much for publishing as personal note taking….how ’bout that?
[8:09:23 AM] Chris Lehmann says: An inability to determine who owns a site and to have a powerful sense of skepticism is essentially illiteracy.
[8:09:23 AM] Darren Draper says: As educated people, we have to be able to determine whether or not information is reliable.
[8:09:44 AM] Clarence Fisher says: **YEAH** Chris
[8:09:52 AM] Jeff Utecht says: “The link is what powers the network” Great line!
[8:09:56 AM] Chris Lehmann says: yep.
[8:10:00 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: re blogs: they are for whatever we want them to be for on a given moment on a given day
[8:10:17 AM] J Stearns says: Students need to be self-organizers.
[8:10:18 AM] David Jakes says: Thank you, Bill
[8:10:22 AM] Chris Lehmann says: “The link is what powers…”
[8:10:28 AM] Dean Shareski says: @Bill…I agree
[8:11:02 AM] David Jakes says: Will this transcript be posted?
[8:11:03 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: @chris — best definition of literacy I’ve seen
[8:11:03 AM] Darren Draper says: n07s584
[8:11:34 AM] Chris Lehmann says: that’s a challenge as we think about the corporate influence. There’s a powerful need for institutions to keep people on their own site which defeats the power and purpose of learning on the net.
[8:11:45 AM] Jeff Utecht says: You bet…will be on the blog minutes after Will’s session is over.
[8:11:47 AM] Chris Lehmann says: I need to get better aobut using the tags.
[8:11:54 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: if this is getting posted, then I’m also confessing: I’ve never read the world is flat either
[8:11:59 AM] Darren Draper says: Kids need to understand publishing.  They need to understand tags.
[8:12:23 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Learning is about conversations, not tools.
[8:12:25 AM] Brian Crosby says: Yes – tags – Vicki is the evangelist
[8:12:25 AM] Clarence Fisher says: I’ve listened to it. Does that count? Actually, 2X on my long drives around the country
[8:12:44 AM] Chris Lehmann says: When I talk to parents and I use a very similar statement about literacy in our world, parents’ jaws drop. It’s scary for a lot of people about how new and how necessary this new literacy is.
[8:13:09 AM] Dean Shareski says: I’ve seen some talk about standardizing tags…again, Downes says tags aren’t meant to be standardized…I think Weinberger would agree as well…Everything is Miscellaneous
[8:13:23 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: re tags: do they need to know about tags, metadata, folksonomies, and taxonomies? Or do they need to know about organizing?
[8:13:35 AM] Chris Lehmann says: “Scan This Book” — NY Times — talking about the change in information.
[8:13:35 AM] Darren Draper says: Will’s son (age 7) has edited Wikipedia.  Way too cool.
[8:13:42 AM] Brian Crosby says: @Dean – there’s been some discussion about that here
[8:13:43 AM] Clarence Fisher says: I’m listening to and reading everyhting of Weinberger’s I find right now. Hes on Twitter you know
[8:13:51 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Anybody have links to what their kids have contributed to the world of information?
[8:13:53 AM] J Stearns says: We talk about literacy in our district conversations, and
the term literacy needs to be redefined.
[8:13:56 AM] Jeff Utecht says:
[8:14:12 AM] Chris Lehmann says: The need to be self-regulators — the need to stay in balance and not lose ourselves in this world.
[8:14:23 AM] Jeff Utecht says:
[8:14:32 AM] Clarence Fisher says: Jeff: start here:
[8:14:35 AM] Darren Draper says: Are we modeling balance?
[8:14:37 AM] Dean Shareski says: @Jeff My 8 year old blogs….
[8:14:40 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Darren — right now? Not even close. :)
[8:14:42 AM] John Pederson says: “student need to know how to keep themselves safe”
[8:14:49 AM] John Pederson says: “self-protectors”
[8:15:00 AM] Jeff Utecht says:
[8:15:22 AM] Jeff Utecht says:
[8:15:37 AM] Brian Crosby says: @John – right on – Many kids only have themselves – so they better learn
[8:15:39 AM] Chris Lehmann says: I think there needs to be an inside / outside presence here… we use the walled garden of Moodle, but then we teach them how and *when* to step outside and publish to the world.
[8:15:42 AM] J Stearns says: Jeff, your models of students publishing content is great.
[8:16:18 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Agree Chris…we need to be teaching both…both have a place in conversations..a different funtion.
[8:16:21 AM] Darren Draper says: Terry Freedman’s latest tweet:  “Many people focus on the problem, but we need practical solutions.”
[8:16:20 AM] John Pederson says: “we don’t do ‘self-regulation’ the second part of 8th grade” (these are not units)
[8:16:38 AM] Clarence Fisher says: Chris: I disagree. We “play” in public all the time, brings more serendipity and possibility
[8:16:45 AM] J Stearns says: Digital ethics needs to be mandatory curriculum
[8:16:48 AM] Brian Crosby says: The add on model is what scares many about adopting these new tools – they thinks its about learning the tools and don’t have the time
[8:18:04 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Brian — I go back to Postman with this. He said that some technology is transformative. When Gutenberg invented the printing press, we didn’t have Europe + Printing Press, we had a whole new Europe. I think that what we’re seeing now is transformative. We don’t have Schools + Web 2.0, we have whole new schools.
[8:18:13 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: re public/private: the skill level of the user needs to be taken into account — if you have a relatively new user in a system that gives no visual cues about what is public and private, you are setting that user up to learn the hard way
[8:18:31 AM] Darren Draper says: Is anybody podcasting/recording this session?
[8:18:49 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: both a media literacy issue, but something that can also be addressed through good design
[8:18:59 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Showing
[8:19:02 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Bill — great point.
[8:19:12 AM] Brian Crosby says: @Chris – yes the “feel” in my room now is consistently “different”
[8:19:22 AM] Clarence Fisher says: Chris: That I can completely agree with!
[8:19:36 AM] Jeff Utecht added Brian Grenier to this chat
[8:20:18 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Showing
[8:20:56 AM] Chris Lehmann says: I love the hybrid… watching teachers set students up with challenging ideas and then letting them go to talk, reflect, create… I love watching SLA teachers do that.
[8:21:00 AM] Bill Fitzgerald has changed the chat topic to “NECC–Wednesday”
[8:21:05 AM] Brian Crosby says: Mashups for kids
[8:21:08 AM] Jeff Utecht added alex.ragone to this chat
[8:21:18 AM] J Stearns says: VoiceThread allows students to easily publish online.
[8:21:26 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Showing
[8:22:04 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Showing
[8:22:30 AM] Chris Lehmann says: is there is sense of ironic importance that I just got a mass email from FairTest’s Monty Neill calling for political action to ensure overhaul of NCLB?
[8:22:54 AM] Brian Crosby says: Has anyone had issues with outsiders messing with their wikis?
[8:22:56 AM] John Pederson says: “real work, real audience, real purposes”
[8:23:00 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Real work for real world for real audiences=engaged students
[8:23:07 AM] Clarence Fisher says: none. In 2 years
[8:23:18 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: me neither
[8:23:41 AM] Darren Draper says: “All of our work has to have wings.”
[8:23:42 AM] J Stearns says: never had problem with my open wikis being messed with. On closed wikis, people I don’t know have requested to join, but that’s all.
[8:23:50 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Showing
[8:24:02 AM] Clarence Fisher says: nor outsiders messing with kids and their blogs ie. nasty, real comments (lots of spam, but that’s different)
[8:24:29 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: @Jeff re the real audiences: I love the connections between blogging and rhetorical context. I think Aristotle was the first blogger :)
[8:25:19 AM] Brian Crosby says: Real work lives – doesn’t end up in trash or a closet
[8:25:20 AM] Chris Lehmann says: talking about the “yeah, buts…”
[8:25:26 AM] John Pederson says: will’s last point in the “yeah, buts…”
[8:25:42 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Model it in your practice
[8:25:47 AM] John Pederson says: 6.  “I’m scared.”  You should be.  On some level we all are.
[8:25:53 AM] alex.ragone says: Interesting to be following this chat remotely.
[8:26:06 AM] Jeff Utecht says: “You figuring it out in your classroom and your practice” Like that he puts the challenge to the teachers
[8:26:08 AM] Darren Draper says: I’ve seen some people that have huge yeahbutts.  :)
[8:26:16 AM] Brian Crosby says: Yeah, but I don’t do RSS …
[8:26:27 AM] alex.ragone says: RE: 6. Changes makes people scared, but change is not slowing down.  We need to show people that.
[8:26:31 AM] Brian Crosby says: I do now
[8:26:42 AM] J Stearns says: It has to start with the teacher as the learner. Need to do new things in new ways. Pedagogy needs to change.
[8:26:49 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Y’all should have seen our school-wide science fair expo. We had over 30 judges from different professional walks of life… kids took their ideas in incredible ways and defended them, etc… and many of them are already considering how to continue and extend their work.
[8:26:51 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: re being scared: a good educator should always temper their approach with trepidation
[8:26:56 AM] Clarence Fisher says: change = opportunity and challnege, not denial
[8:27:03 AM] Darren Draper says: Do it anyway.
[8:27:17 AM] Darren Draper says: … but in secret.
[8:27:23 AM] Darren Draper says: … if you have to.
[8:27:29 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: as soon as we lose the ability to view our work critically, and be open to the possibility we might be wrong, we lose the ability to continue learning
[8:27:29 AM] Chris Lehmann says: that’s hard to sustain, Darren.
[8:27:33 AM] Dean Shareski says: @Jeff…try adding Will to the conversation…that would be interesting
[8:27:43 AM] Brian Crosby says: Get teachers in to see what’s going on – the parents hear about it from the kids !! :)
[8:27:46 AM] Darren Draper says: True.  But it can be an adventure in the process.
[8:28:00 AM] Chris Lehmann says: agreed.
[8:28:03 AM] Jeff Utecht says: @Dean he purposly shut down his Skype so we couldn’t :)
[8:28:16 AM] Chris Lehmann says: But hey, just come move to Philly and teach with us instead! :)
[8:28:18 AM] Clarence Fisher says: I have heard from plenty of parents “Thay actually like coming to school in the mornings.” and are quite surprised
[8:28:36 AM] Clarence Fisher says: @ Chris: Oh, I would
believe me
[8:28:36 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Clarence — we hear that all the time… it’s awesome.
[8:28:37 AM] alex.ragone says: Pre-Schools get it.  My kids YMCA is very open with e-mail lists and parent yahoo and google groups.
[8:29:11 AM] Brian Crosby says: MIne mostly work – but I had a couple take their kids to the library to see their online work!!! Way cool
[8:29:13 AM] Chris Lehmann says: “Yeah, but I don’t have the time….” — sleep is for the weak. :)
[8:29:14 AM] John Pederson says: wow
[8:29:15 AM] John Pederson says: wow
[8:29:17 AM] John Pederson says: wow
[8:29:28 AM] John Pederson says: applause from the audience
[8:29:31 AM] Clarence Fisher says: I though caffeine was a food group…..?
[8:29:32 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Will is really challenging the audience
[8:29:38 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Good for him
[8:29:44 AM] Darren Draper says: “You bought into education.  If you don’t have the time, suck it up”.  I love it.
[8:29:45 AM] J Stearns says: One of the best comments one of the teachers in my group made yesterday is that what she took away from this conference was that she needed to start thinking outside the box. Good start
[8:29:48 AM] alex.ragone says: Nice.  Go Will!
[8:29:52 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Will just got a HUGE clap by saying, “If you don’t think you have the time, suck it up or leave the profession.”
[8:29:53 AM] alex.ragone says: How many people are in the room?
[8:30:08 AM] Clarence Fisher says: what a great quote!
[8:30:11 AM] Chris Lehmann says: several hundred, I think.
[8:30:15 AM] alex.ragone says: Nice.
[8:30:29 AM] Clarence Fisher says: I always tell teachers that their first step is to try being more interesting
[8:30:33 AM] Darren Draper says: “If you’re scared, that’s good.  It means you care…”
[8:30:49 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Here comes the wrap up….let’s see if he nails it!
[8:30:55 AM] alex.ragone says: Chris, it’s your job (the leaders) to create the time for them to change.  Tim Lauer is very wise about that.
[8:31:03 AM] Jeff Utecht says: We’re on a train but we’re not at the station yet
[8:31:09 AM] Brian Crosby says: @Darren – Amen
[8:31:17 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Many people on the train don’t yet get what’s driving the train
[8:31:21 AM] Jeff Utecht says: It’s connectiviy
[8:31:22 AM] alex.ragone says: Not sure where the station is, Jeff.  Could be a long way off.
[8:31:24 AM] Darren Draper says: “Most of the people on the train still don’t get it.”
[8:31:30 AM] Chris Lehmann says: alex — I agree completely. It’s why I over-staff and keep teaching load down so that there’s time… and I try to create a lot of PD time for reflection and learning.
[8:31:48 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Final Thoughts?
[8:31:55 AM] alex.ragone says: Yep.  Amen to that, Chris.  Need more administrators like you.
[8:31:59 AM] Darren Draper says: @Brian – These are Will’s statements.  I wish I had said it first.
[8:32:03 AM] Clarence Fisher says: we are losing our non – contatct time and pd here…. :(
[8:32:10 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: pd time and planning time are key — yet another reason that NCLB needs work…
[8:32:11 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Final thoughts…
[8:32:15 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: or more
[8:32:24 AM] Darren Draper says: Excellent presentation.  Thanks for adding me to the skype chat!
[8:32:30 AM] John Pederson says: i love that he’s play “waiting for the world to change”
[8:32:33 AM] John Pederson says: over audio
[8:32:41 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Will remains a passionate and wonderful advocate for what we’re all trying to do.
[8:32:47 AM] alex.ragone says: NCLB is such a double ended sword.  It’s started a conversation, but needs so much work.
[8:32:47 AM] Brian Crosby says: Let’s put what he said into practice!
[8:32:48 AM] J Stearns says: What a great way to particpate in the conversation!
[8:33:03 AM] Clarence Fisher says: thanks Jeff for adding me in
[8:33:04 AM] Dean Shareski says: change is also expensive….$$$
[8:33:04 AM] alex.ragone says: Thanks for inviting me.
[8:33:26 AM] Bill Fitzgerald says: @ Dean — change doesn’t need to be expensive
[8:33:27 AM] alex.ragone says: Need to get some gender diversity in this chat, though
[8:33:28 AM] Chris Lehmann says: Dean — that’s the scary part… and we have to find a way to deal with that.
[8:33:31 AM] Darren Draper says: @Dean.  Change doesn’t have to be expensive.
[8:33:40 AM] Darren Draper says: Sweet Bill.  We’re on the same page. :)
[8:33:45 AM] Jeff Utecht says: Thanks everyone up on the in a few minutes.


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  1. Jeff you have added a whole new element to conferences :) I normally have a sneaky ichat with willing participants during conference presentations but normally with the disapproving glances from those sitting around me. But I believe that through expressing our thoughts we form them. And by engaging in conversation as you have demonstrated here, people can get even more out of the presentation. It was good to see people involved who weren’t at the workshop either :). We had David Warlick in NZ and with his permission my friend turned on skype and pointed her web cam at David’s workshop to a colleague in Wales so he could join in the conversation with us. Let’s share this knowledge globally (Feel free to include me in one of these discussions at any time – janenicholls1)

  2. I visited after reading about your twitter site from Will’s blog and echo some of the thoughts of your participants upon first exposure to the thoughts and interactions of participants at an event as the event is going on. It’s rather like being able to tap into the brains of your listeners (from the point of view of a presenter) and get their immediate feedback while you’re presenting. If a presenter were to also be in on the conversation, then he/she could adapt the presentation on the fly responding in real time to the comments as they appear on the log. What’s missing of course is the “simulcast” of the actual presentation!

    Other thoughts: How many high school or middle school teachers are willing to create an environment where they’re not in complete control of everything going on around them? From passing notes surreptitiously in class to texting to this, hasn’t the history of classroom education been to eradicate peripheral conversations rather than encourage them?

    Reading through the transcript one notices the rather high quality of literacy of the participants-few spelling errors, few grammatical errors-it’s easy to read (for folks of our generation and educational background anyway)…Anyone who reads their teenager’s myspace page and all of the comments and postings will notice the difference. Will a text dependent environment catch on amongst a population that can hardly spell three words correctly in a row? On the other hand, maybe that’s a generational issue-younger people don’t seem to be concerned about spelling and using actual words as much as us old fogies do.

  3. Very cool way to keep those of us not able to be there feeling like we’re part of the conversation. An easy way to digitize and share the conversations we do have. I have my students post their chat logs when they feel they add to the class.

  4. Wow. This was well worth my reading time — I had several moments as I was reading where I wished I could chime in — Thanks for sharing this conversation, y’all.

  5. I just discovered why I’m going to install Skype on my mobile phone. I definitely missed out on that one! Thanks for posting the chat.

    SO every conference session needs a wiki, a podcast, a technorati tag and corresponding RSS feed, and a backchannel chat room.

    Heh, we don’t need no stinkin’ handouts.


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